kpotter
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2001
- Location
- tucson arizona usa
- Sep 9, 2012
- #1
I am thinking of making my own hydraulic cylinders for a press that I build. They would be 4-5 inch stroke and maybe 4inch diameter they cant be more than 8inches tall. I want to use them with inexpensive hydraulic powerpack units. I need between 15-20 ton max, the reason I am doing this is because the enerpac stuff is super expensive and I dont need 10,000psi pumps and cylinders to stamp out copper and brass widgets. First question do they sell premachined parts that I can just bolt together? I only need single acting they are spring return on the press platen. Can I get a cylinder like this for under 150 bucks? I am sick and tired of using chinese bottle jacks they suck real bad I want people to have some options. Just for the record I run all enerpac stuff on my personal presses but I cant expect a bunch of middle age women hobbiests to cough up 5 grand for a hydraulic system. The system needs to be under 1000 total cost.
C
CougarMountain
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2010
- Location
- Oregon
- Sep 10, 2012
- #2
Cylinders that are bolted with 4 rods (like ag cylinders) are modular, and could easily be reworked, by shortening the outer barrel, and the rod, or maybe even custom ordered with the shorter parts. All the other parts would be the same.
The cylinders on some of our wax injection presses are built that way. Parker cylinders I believe.
H
Hendy 4CX42
Aluminum
- Joined
- May 11, 2012
- Location
- Way North Michigan, USA
- Sep 10, 2012
- #3
I used to work in a shop that made them, you can buy pre-honed barrel tubing, just a matter of making some ends and rod/piston.
T
Timw
Stainless
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Location
- N E Florida
- Sep 10, 2012
- #4
I buy bearings regularly from- baileynet.com
They carry a full line of cylinder building parts and sell custom cut tubing length.
Your cylinder diameter seems like overkill to me.
I have an Air over Hydraulic pump designed for use on porta-powers that I bought from HF that does a real good job. I use it to press bull gears off and straighten steel drums on construction equipment.
S
surplusjohn
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2002
- Location
- Syracuse, NY USA
- Sep 10, 2012
- #5
you should be able to buy complete custom made cylinders for reasonable money. Check out Bimba. are you making jewlery presses? you may be also be able to integrate the cylinder into the press structure so to save some costs. For instance use two cylinders in a pull down mode so to eliminate half the press structure. I have done this, it all depends on the details.
gwilson
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2006
- Location
- williamsburg va
- Sep 10, 2012
- #6
I must be lucky. My 50 ton Northern bottle press has been fine for 10 years. I hope it doesn't burst and squirt fluid all over the walls!!
JRIowa
Diamond
- Joined
- May 27, 2003
- Location
- Marshalltown, Iowa, USA
- Sep 10, 2012
- #7
If you're just building a few, check here for something that would be close.
Surplus Center - Hydraulics, Engines, Electrical and More
You OAL is going to be the problem with any "stock" cylinder.
Prince has some reasonably priced stuff and supplies a lot of the OEMs.
Hydraulic Cylinders Prince Manufacturing Corporation
Another builder is Rosenboom, here in Iowa
Custom Crafted Hydraulic Cylinders
You should be able to get into something that's close to your price range. Here's something that SC has in a double acting that could work except for the OAL: Surplus Center - 4x4x3 DA HYDRAULIC CYLINDER
JR
R
Rawleigh
Aluminum
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2012
- Location
- Virginia, USA
- Sep 10, 2012
- #8
Are these going to be coining presses?
Toms Wheels
Titanium
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2005
- Location
- Jersey Shore
- Sep 10, 2012
- #9
The standard for Powerpac hydraulics is 10K psi, so the levers and pump pistons are sized accordingly. To this you want to connect a ram that likely has a 2-3K psi rating, and is 4"D. What you end up with is a hand pump, that will take a hour of pumping to move the piston, with a possible force of up to 60 tons. Of course the ram or frame will fail long before that.
The issue is the hand pump volume has to be sized to the displacement of the cylinder for some sort of effecient operation. Look at the sizing of the kits that are sold with hand pumps, all are smal displacement.
D
DDoug
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2005
- Location
- NW Pa
- Sep 10, 2012
- #10
Best Metal Products | Manufacturer of Custom Hydraulic Cylinders
I've spoken to these people on the phone a couple of times,
worked on a couple of cylinders designs.
M
magneticanomaly
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2007
- Location
- On Elk Mountain, West Virginia, USA
R
R. Dan
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2012
- Location
- NW Iowa
- Sep 10, 2012
- #12
JRIowa said:
If you're just building a few, check here for something that would be close.
Surplus Center - Hydraulics, Engines, Electrical and MoreYou OAL is going to be the problem with any "stock" cylinder.
Prince has some reasonably priced stuff and supplies a lot of the OEMs.
Hydraulic Cylinders Prince Manufacturing CorporationAnother builder is Rosenboom, here in Iowa
Custom Crafted Hydraulic CylindersYou should be able to get into something that's close to your price range. Here's something that SC has in a double acting that could work except for the OAL: Surplus Center - 4x4x3 DA HYDRAULIC CYLINDER
JR
Neither Prince nor Rosenboom are going to have anything off the shelf that will work in this situation. Either one could build what is needed but it will be a custom cylinder. Probably wouldn't be affordable unless the op is buying a bunch.
A
adama
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2004
- Location
- uk
- Sep 10, 2012
- #13
Over here you would get them custom made probably cheaper than you could make them. Especially if your flexible on od - mounting styles. Making cylinders either air or oil is easy enough, all the seals are readily available with machining details too. Its just a fair bit of medium precision turning. Also a fair bit of screw cutting, even if you go for a tie rod cylinder arrangement. Cylinder tube and chrome rod can be bought in and just finish turned. Were i use to work the sizes you mention we use to some times buy - some times make. Mainly depending on lead times and what bits were sitting in stores. Small and we always bought in. You have to remember the only bits that are really custom on a hydraulic cylinder is the rod and cylinder length + rod and cylinder end attachments - port orientation. Glands, pistons are all std parts for a given rod - bore combo - hence made in big quantities cheep. Piston rod end machining is but a cnc programme for a given piston size, same goes for gland fitments to the cylinder. Hence even custom cylinders can gain massive savings on mass production over having just 10 made by a local cnc shop!
JRIowa
Diamond
- Joined
- May 27, 2003
- Location
- Marshalltown, Iowa, USA
- Sep 10, 2012
- #14
R. Dan said:
Neither Prince nor Rosenboom are going to have anything off the shelf that will work in this situation. Either one could build what is needed but it will be a custom cylinder. Probably wouldn't be affordable unless the op is buying a bunch.
Dan,
What would "work" and his specs are may or may not be two different things. If you can buy something off the shelf from either, you could get under $100. Surplus center is great for small lots, but you might never find the same cylinder again.
One of the Rosenbooms co-oped for my a few years back. They have a nice operation.
JR
kpotter
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2001
- Location
- tucson arizona usa
- Sep 10, 2012
- #15
thanks for all the replies. the cylinder will only be using 2500psi that is why I need the large diameter. The 4x4x3 at surplus center is one that I was looking at and it would work perfect, but I will need at least 50 of them per year. I will check out parker and the others to see about building my own.
S
surplusjohn
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2002
- Location
- Syracuse, NY USA
- Sep 10, 2012
- #16
lamination presses use big diameter cylinders to get the big tonnage and are rodless. think of a plug in a cylinder where the top of the plug is the bottom platten.
R
R. Dan
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2012
- Location
- NW Iowa
- Sep 11, 2012
- #17
JRIowa said:
Dan,
What would "work" and his specs are may or may not be two different things. If you can buy something off the shelf from either, you could get under $100. Surplus center is great for small lots, but you might never find the same cylinder again.One of the Rosenbooms co-oped for my a few years back. They have a nice operation.
JR
I quite agree with all you are saying. The problem is the original poster was looking at 4-5" of stroke with only around 8" retracted length. That's kind of a case of trying to cram 20 lbs. of *stuff* in a 10 lb. bag. Prince's PMC-5600 cylinder is a Ø4.00 bore 2500 p.s.i. cylinder that is often used for logsplitters and such. A PMC-5604 is a 4.00 stroke and has a retracted length of 13.00. the PMC-5605 is a 5.00 stroke and has a retracted length of 14.00. Welded Hydraulic Cylinders
You can get Prince cylinders without the endfittings welded on, but they would then be a custom cylinder. The Royal Line cylinders (which is the line the PMC-5600 belongs to) used to be available without end fittings but are no longer offered as a catolog item, only as a custom. As for Prince's tierod cylinders, they are also going to be too long retracted than what our friend is looking for. And I am quite sure that any other cylinder manufacturer is going to come up long on these also. It's merely a matter of being difficult to put that much cylinder in a small space. I could perhaps design something that would work in the short retract space but it would be difficult. If the op is flexible on his retract length, then it is a different story.
And yes, Rozenboom has an outstanding operation.
M
Mike C.
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2004
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Sep 11, 2012
- #18
RDan speaks truth. By the time you get a piston long enough to hold wear rings and a seal in a tube that has a gland for wiper, seals and wear bands in the top and a 1/4" of welded in butt at the bottom, you cannot get 4" of travel out of an 8" OAL cyl, even if custom made.
D
drylakemachine
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- May 22, 2008
- Location
- elmirage ca
- Sep 11, 2012
- #19
I would think if you made it like a enerpac 30 ton cyl with out the spring,as the platten has spring return.
use a 1/2" plug on the hard side,1 1/2 wide boss for the seal and guide strip and what ever kind of guide you need on the moveable end. If you mount this with the hard side up, you'll need to make a clamp.
I figure 1 1/2 in a 7" (usable) space( 8" cyl) will give 5 1/2 travel. You can add matl. where ever you think you need it. A 30 ton has 3/4 end plates
jim
R
rbent
Stainless
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2011
- Location
- Kansas
- Sep 11, 2012
- #20
Why not a simple plain bore, endcap is the top plate of your crosshead, fluid in on the top, straight piston, spring retract on the exterior of the cylinder. Put a sign on it that says X amount of travel, if it goes past it leaks fluid so size stroke appropriately. It works for lots of concrete test frames.
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